I’m so sorry this happened to you. I went through something similar and the first psychiatrist I saw told me that the first step to accepting what happened to me, is accepting that I might never fully know the whole story.
However, that does not mean you should just graze over your memory of saying no. What you explained here was rape. Please, please, please see a therapist if you can. Your university may provide mental health services.
If you want to chat further, I’m going through therapy for an SA right now. I’m no expert but I can at least lend an ear until you get more help.
M28 here. I gotta give it to you man you really messed up there. Not responding for 2 days, regardless of what the topic was about, is a universal sign that person is at the bottom of your priority list.
If I met someone and they don't respond to my text for 2 days I would take it as a sure sign to move on. Saying g you forgot is not an excuse. She just was not a priority.
I totally understand your hurt feelings but if you feel like he’s generally a good boyfriend maybe talk about it? I was married and I never got anything like that. I don’t think I have ever received a heartfelt letter from a SO telling me what I mean to them. I get your disappointment and it seems like a small thing to ask but maybe he feels like he can’t do it and he dreads it or he’s insecure. sorry.
Like truly, if you actually love someone in every way, their weight doesn’t bother you. Because you love THEM. But it sounds to me like he simply doesn’t want a heavier girlfriend. And who knows, she may have undiagnosed depression, other health issues, or just having a naked time. Trying to push someone into the gym and talking about their weight nonstop is NOT going to motivate them. It’s only going to make them more insecure.
Ironically for me, I was more motivated to lose weight when the person I loved, loved me irrespective of weight. I didn’t feel ashamed of me, so I didn’t feel embarrassed to want to lose weight.
And I did. Put the damn stuff back on a bit now I’m over 40, but I don’t care. And when someone loves you for who YOU are, it frees you up to be you.
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So, do you think that it's possible that she only became uncertain because of you telling her it must be wrong? I'm not saying she was or wasn't, moreso suggesting it as a hypothetical that may be useful to think about. How can you improve yourself /alter your communication, if the way you communicate causes your loved ones to question their own knowledge, even on something that they were certain of before. I have autism myself and very much relate to many of your issues here. And initially, I learnt 'how to be human' from when X do Y flow charts of social behaviour in my head, from 'rules' taught to me by family or my autism specialists. But there becomes a point where life is too complex to be fed the social rules (as you're wanting here) as it ends up often being too situation specific.
Eventually you need to develop your own way of evaluating situations and thinking up multiple ways to react to it, and 'simulating' how each option may go, in order to learn what to do in the future. Just asking others what to do, won't help because there inevitably will be a situation that doesn't fit that mould, and if you only do it because someone said that's 'how to be social', not because you understand why you're doing X or saying Y, then it's inevitably doomed too
It is not easy to develop the skill mentioned above, of mentally simulating situations to learn on your own how to be better. But it's a crucial one for being in the world of ever complex personal relationships I.e. Not just friends (as they tend to be a lot more accepting of oddities. Or just find a gf on the spectrum. You and I would get on haha)
I personally would never date someone who's decided to save themselves for marriage. It's a clear sign that our values don't align and all that, but also, sexual incompatibility is not good for long term relationships.
Thank you, and yeah, I'm sorry, I know it was a lot but I appreciate you reading it. I think you're right, and I am not going to just propose out of nowhere anytime soon. I think some counseling might be good for us, because at the end of the day, I do think that we both are trying to make it work, and if we can, then I want to at least try.
I said this to another commenter, but in case you don't see that, I just want to say that I do accept her for who she is. I don't want to push her to be anything that she is not. The only reason I pushed her is because I thought she was holding herself back. There's a lot of history with her that I didn't get to mention. She has been bullied and abused most of her life by her awful parents, and because of that, she is extremely timid (for instance, she is still scared to drive a car, and she never went to college even though she was a straight A student, all because her parents told her that she would fail). In my mind, I was helping her to break out of her shell and gain some independence and such. I realize now that maybe it's not a shell, maybe that is just who she is, and you know what? If that is the case, I can honestly say that I accept that. I don't love her based on the conditions, I love her regardless.
no… no you should not. you need to break it off, and block him. Don't unblock him, don't give him a 3rd of 4th chance… he's shown you exactly who he is. Its only been a year and it sounds like you two are constantly fighting and he's constantly threatening to cheat. Why would you want to commit to that type of behavior. when someone shows you who they are… believe them.. and he's shown you that he is manipulative, childish, selfish, can't respect boundaries, thinks he's better than you…. its all about control. He doesn't care what you want, he wants someone he can control. Why would you want to put up with that?
And no, these behaviors won't go away if you get married.. they will just change.. get married and it will be something else. And is that really what you want… like the most unromantic marriage every.. “oh we got married because he was emotionally abusive and so I gave in and married him because he said he would stop being emotionally abusive if I just married him”
Lol. Military. That explains it. Didn’t realize how much that stereotype holds true until I heard stories from friends in the military on top of seeing it first hand when one of them rushed into a marriage way too fucking fast that ended in divorce… twice. Both by the time he was 23 so OP’s got my friend beat in being sensible about relationships at least.
Wow. That would annoy the hell out of me if I was at the gym. I’m female. She’s needy and obviously she is never wrong. You were argumentative? That’s nuts. The dizzy thing? Also nuts and manipulative. She’s a lot. Have a great vacation!
I mean love isn't a voluntary feeling that I can choose to have. I either feel it or don't.
How have I demeaned her attempts? By paying her tuition? By moving us in together into an apartment (paid for by me)? By staying up and tutoring her on her own coursework? Or maybe by staying quiet through the initial weight gain while she sorted herself out.
Why do I think too highly of myself? Lol you're entitled to your opinion but at least try to make a modicum of sense in your statements.
Trying to make it cutesy is fine. Making light of stuff helps me when I’m not doing great. But if she refuses to say it properly ever then that’s the problem. Cause depression isn’t cutesy in the slightest
The question is not should you stick with it or should you leave. The questions are : why do you even consider that staying is an option and why didn't you leave already? Why are you financially supporting someone who is old enough to be your Dad, but whodoesn't work and thinks that gambling is an employment.
Btw, people are downvoting you because you keep saying it’s because “you aren’t standing up for him.” That’s wrong. YOU ARE THE VICTIM. THE ABUSE IS NOT YOUR FAULT. You are not causing him to act this way. It is ALL ON HIM, and there is NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO “FIX” HIM.
Ok, so he got through his addiction just to prove to you sober him is still a selfish asshole.
You’ve wasted enough time sacrificing yourself to make this work, IMO. Move on, find joy, life is too short to suffer someone who wants to put you down and make you unhappy to make themselves feel better. Find someone who cherishes you and builds you up. That’s what you deserve.
Girl, what are you doing? This man has shattered your self esteem. You can do better than that. You’ve got to get out of this emotionally abusive relationship and get your self worth back. You’ve given enough. It’s your turn.
Do you still love him? Cause it sounds from the cons list that your honeymoon phase has ended a while ago and it might not continue in real “love” as people tend to say.
Perhaps the rose-tinted glasses fell off and he didn't seem that good of a partner anymore. Which is fine, that happens.
However if you have fallen out of love with him, you shouldn't stay with him because you don't want to be alone. Both you AND him deserve to be with someone that actually loves you romantically.. Not just because they don't want to leave.
I think that's a question you should ask yourself.. Whether you're okay with putting the effort in for him because you love him, or are you just staying with him because you're scared to be alone.
If the first one is the case then good! Y'all should sit down together and have an adult conversation about what your missing or would like to change. Perhaps make it a monthly/bi-monthly thing.. Like a relationship check up to make sure everythings still going right for the both of you.
If it's the latter then.. Well you should leave if you don't love him anymore.. You should get therapy to help with your fear of being alone, because staying in a relationship because of it is toxic to both yourself and your partner.
It’s really not that inconceivable for a 21-25 year old (aka someone without a fully developed prefrontal cortex or extensive life experience ) to think love is enough to get past anything.
You need a lawyer. I can understand why you've made all of the decisions you have, and your ex sounds like an arsenal. However this is a legal situation and you need to find yourself a really good lawyer now.
Speaking as a man, it’s not sexism. Men are fucking disgusting. How are you going to read this comment and your first thought is to cry sexism when we are literally the ones harassing this woman who came here for relationship advice? Men like you are why women generalize men.
23/21 is too young to call it settling. Find someone who loves all of you and makes you feel an absolute dreamboat. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s getting podcast advice ?
My FIL made inappropriate comments as well, but (thank god) not of a sexual nature. When I was pregnant I told the in laws that those comments stop or I don’t bring baby around. FIL dropped a comment on the first visit, I packed up baby and left. Never happened again. Leverage works both ways and you are this baby’s main defender in life.
Dad’s a boat rocker, mom and BF are stabilizers. This is the time to set boundaries, choose how you want to live!.
The other kicker is that she said she felt zero remorse for any of them because her ex didn’t give her the attention she desired and it was pretty much his fault for not fulfilling her needs.
So not only is she a habitual cheater and liar, she'll convince herself that it isn't her fault in order to not feel bad about it.
I don't usually jump to conclusions like this, but I honestly don't think this relationship is worth salvaging. She doesn't sound like someone you should be with and who knows what else you're going to find out that makes all of that^ seem smalltime
You sound genuinely lovely and these people will be lucky to have you in their lives!
I find the best topics of conversation in social situations are often the most basic…you just ask people how their week is going and share stuff that's going on with you. It can seem awkward or banal at first but eventually you’ll find things that resonate.
Congratulations on leaving your ex who's kept you locked up(?!) and good luck with the next stage of your life.
Your son is out there trying to live! a life that is most authentic to him. be happy for him and happy for the time that you get with him when you do see him.
He would be miserable living somewhere he did not want to be.
He’s nearing fifty and has never looked after himself completely independently. He lived with my aunt and uncle until he was 35, at which point they had to move him into an assisted living facility because they were simply too old to keep taking care of him. He’s generally chipper and very good with kids, but struggles to handle adult topics and conversations, has had a permanent stooped posture for as long as I’ve been alive (I’m turning 35 this year).
He can’t drive, he can’t work more than 12 hours a week, he can’t form meaningful relationships with women
He also may not be into oral as much as other men bit I still think that's rude to “rate your pussy”. He has no concept if what this can do to a woman's confidence. Kind of an odd conversation..
I was raised in a Catholic family, I was just talking to my very religious grandmother about weddings, as my partner was raised Protestant. She says in our church mixed marriages are allowed as long as the other partner is baptized Christian. However we will not be having a Catholic wedding, as I do not practice my faith strongly anymore and would prefer to be married outside the church. At the end of the day, a marriage is between two people, many couples elope for this reason. You shouldn’t have to compromise for people outside outside of the two of you even if it’s your family. You and your partner should come to a personal agreement about what ceremony works best for you, whether it be a private elopement if the family is deciding not to attend or elsewhere. Whatever is the best solution for everyone
Me and my husband have sex on shrooms and it's amaaaazing but i have never had sex with anyone else all of the many times I've tripped in my life. Always thought it would be weird. Def need to be very comfy with eachother
leave his ass.
I totally agree, thank you this helps a lot hearing someone’s else’s perspective is always my go to when I’m stuck on something
I’m so sorry this happened to you. I went through something similar and the first psychiatrist I saw told me that the first step to accepting what happened to me, is accepting that I might never fully know the whole story.
However, that does not mean you should just graze over your memory of saying no. What you explained here was rape. Please, please, please see a therapist if you can. Your university may provide mental health services.
If you want to chat further, I’m going through therapy for an SA right now. I’m no expert but I can at least lend an ear until you get more help.
Then don’t self diagnose. The profesional help I suggested would be able to the diagnosing.
Good luck.
Business major, will graduate after a year.
Exactly! After seeing that he follows them, I've just looked at him differently.
What if the shoe is in the other foot? What would they feel if the parents of your bf are the wealthier one and have the same view?
Thanks
Is she postive and uncontrolled? Or positive and undetectable / untransmittable?
Those are two very different things.
M28 here. I gotta give it to you man you really messed up there. Not responding for 2 days, regardless of what the topic was about, is a universal sign that person is at the bottom of your priority list.
If I met someone and they don't respond to my text for 2 days I would take it as a sure sign to move on. Saying g you forgot is not an excuse. She just was not a priority.
Jesus. But you DON'T want to leave?
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Ask the husband for permission…These comments reek of insecure men for sure! Like wtf.
I totally understand your hurt feelings but if you feel like he’s generally a good boyfriend maybe talk about it? I was married and I never got anything like that. I don’t think I have ever received a heartfelt letter from a SO telling me what I mean to them. I get your disappointment and it seems like a small thing to ask but maybe he feels like he can’t do it and he dreads it or he’s insecure. sorry.
I totally agree.
Missing them is ok. It's part of the process. Just don't make the mistake of thinking that having them back in your life is a positive thing
Can you afford a hotel for you and GF? Otherwise I wouldn’t go. It could be dangerous.
You’ve nailed it
Like truly, if you actually love someone in every way, their weight doesn’t bother you. Because you love THEM. But it sounds to me like he simply doesn’t want a heavier girlfriend. And who knows, she may have undiagnosed depression, other health issues, or just having a naked time. Trying to push someone into the gym and talking about their weight nonstop is NOT going to motivate them. It’s only going to make them more insecure.
Ironically for me, I was more motivated to lose weight when the person I loved, loved me irrespective of weight. I didn’t feel ashamed of me, so I didn’t feel embarrassed to want to lose weight.
And I did. Put the damn stuff back on a bit now I’m over 40, but I don’t care. And when someone loves you for who YOU are, it frees you up to be you.
Your partner sounds like an absolute keeper! ?
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So, do you think that it's possible that she only became uncertain because of you telling her it must be wrong? I'm not saying she was or wasn't, moreso suggesting it as a hypothetical that may be useful to think about. How can you improve yourself /alter your communication, if the way you communicate causes your loved ones to question their own knowledge, even on something that they were certain of before. I have autism myself and very much relate to many of your issues here. And initially, I learnt 'how to be human' from when X do Y flow charts of social behaviour in my head, from 'rules' taught to me by family or my autism specialists. But there becomes a point where life is too complex to be fed the social rules (as you're wanting here) as it ends up often being too situation specific.
Eventually you need to develop your own way of evaluating situations and thinking up multiple ways to react to it, and 'simulating' how each option may go, in order to learn what to do in the future. Just asking others what to do, won't help because there inevitably will be a situation that doesn't fit that mould, and if you only do it because someone said that's 'how to be social', not because you understand why you're doing X or saying Y, then it's inevitably doomed too
It is not easy to develop the skill mentioned above, of mentally simulating situations to learn on your own how to be better. But it's a crucial one for being in the world of ever complex personal relationships I.e. Not just friends (as they tend to be a lot more accepting of oddities. Or just find a gf on the spectrum. You and I would get on haha)
As someone who husband is a “know-it-all”, heres my advice
I personally would never date someone who's decided to save themselves for marriage. It's a clear sign that our values don't align and all that, but also, sexual incompatibility is not good for long term relationships.
Thank you, and yeah, I'm sorry, I know it was a lot but I appreciate you reading it. I think you're right, and I am not going to just propose out of nowhere anytime soon. I think some counseling might be good for us, because at the end of the day, I do think that we both are trying to make it work, and if we can, then I want to at least try.
I said this to another commenter, but in case you don't see that, I just want to say that I do accept her for who she is. I don't want to push her to be anything that she is not. The only reason I pushed her is because I thought she was holding herself back. There's a lot of history with her that I didn't get to mention. She has been bullied and abused most of her life by her awful parents, and because of that, she is extremely timid (for instance, she is still scared to drive a car, and she never went to college even though she was a straight A student, all because her parents told her that she would fail). In my mind, I was helping her to break out of her shell and gain some independence and such. I realize now that maybe it's not a shell, maybe that is just who she is, and you know what? If that is the case, I can honestly say that I accept that. I don't love her based on the conditions, I love her regardless.
Maybe 8 months is enough time for him to accept the break up, fall in love with himself again and move on to better things (including you maybe)
no… no you should not. you need to break it off, and block him. Don't unblock him, don't give him a 3rd of 4th chance… he's shown you exactly who he is. Its only been a year and it sounds like you two are constantly fighting and he's constantly threatening to cheat. Why would you want to commit to that type of behavior. when someone shows you who they are… believe them.. and he's shown you that he is manipulative, childish, selfish, can't respect boundaries, thinks he's better than you…. its all about control. He doesn't care what you want, he wants someone he can control. Why would you want to put up with that?
And no, these behaviors won't go away if you get married.. they will just change.. get married and it will be something else. And is that really what you want… like the most unromantic marriage every.. “oh we got married because he was emotionally abusive and so I gave in and married him because he said he would stop being emotionally abusive if I just married him”
Guy is like a field of red flags.. you know it.
Lol. Military. That explains it. Didn’t realize how much that stereotype holds true until I heard stories from friends in the military on top of seeing it first hand when one of them rushed into a marriage way too fucking fast that ended in divorce… twice. Both by the time he was 23 so OP’s got my friend beat in being sensible about relationships at least.
Wow. That would annoy the hell out of me if I was at the gym. I’m female. She’s needy and obviously she is never wrong. You were argumentative? That’s nuts. The dizzy thing? Also nuts and manipulative. She’s a lot. Have a great vacation!
Which one so I can fix it?
I mean love isn't a voluntary feeling that I can choose to have. I either feel it or don't.
How have I demeaned her attempts? By paying her tuition? By moving us in together into an apartment (paid for by me)? By staying up and tutoring her on her own coursework? Or maybe by staying quiet through the initial weight gain while she sorted herself out.
Why do I think too highly of myself? Lol you're entitled to your opinion but at least try to make a modicum of sense in your statements.
I've been married happily for nearly 40 years, and my husband and I are both happy to be monogamous. When you have the right one, that one is enough.
It’s the way she got it. What are you missing?
You like ass breath.?♀️? I didn’t know it was naked to brush your teeth lmao!!!
You like ass breath.?♀️? I didn’t know it was naked to brush your teeth lmao!!!
Trying to make it cutesy is fine. Making light of stuff helps me when I’m not doing great. But if she refuses to say it properly ever then that’s the problem. Cause depression isn’t cutesy in the slightest
My fingers are crossed for you!
I didn’t realize until we just were about to leave. She made the excuse
So basically she conned him into going on a romantic vacation together? Why did he still go if he realized it before they left?
It seems like she is pursuing him if nothing is going on. When you have seen them interact, is she flirty?
Oh that’s not a great combi no. I’m so sorry. But I’m happy for you that you found a trustable clubber now! 🙂
The question is not should you stick with it or should you leave. The questions are : why do you even consider that staying is an option and why didn't you leave already? Why are you financially supporting someone who is old enough to be your Dad, but whodoesn't work and thinks that gambling is an employment.
Btw, people are downvoting you because you keep saying it’s because “you aren’t standing up for him.” That’s wrong. YOU ARE THE VICTIM. THE ABUSE IS NOT YOUR FAULT. You are not causing him to act this way. It is ALL ON HIM, and there is NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO “FIX” HIM.
Ok, so he got through his addiction just to prove to you sober him is still a selfish asshole.
You’ve wasted enough time sacrificing yourself to make this work, IMO. Move on, find joy, life is too short to suffer someone who wants to put you down and make you unhappy to make themselves feel better. Find someone who cherishes you and builds you up. That’s what you deserve.
Girl, what are you doing? This man has shattered your self esteem. You can do better than that. You’ve got to get out of this emotionally abusive relationship and get your self worth back. You’ve given enough. It’s your turn.
Do you still love him? Cause it sounds from the cons list that your honeymoon phase has ended a while ago and it might not continue in real “love” as people tend to say.
Perhaps the rose-tinted glasses fell off and he didn't seem that good of a partner anymore. Which is fine, that happens.
However if you have fallen out of love with him, you shouldn't stay with him because you don't want to be alone. Both you AND him deserve to be with someone that actually loves you romantically.. Not just because they don't want to leave.
I think that's a question you should ask yourself.. Whether you're okay with putting the effort in for him because you love him, or are you just staying with him because you're scared to be alone.
If the first one is the case then good! Y'all should sit down together and have an adult conversation about what your missing or would like to change. Perhaps make it a monthly/bi-monthly thing.. Like a relationship check up to make sure everythings still going right for the both of you.
If it's the latter then.. Well you should leave if you don't love him anymore.. You should get therapy to help with your fear of being alone, because staying in a relationship because of it is toxic to both yourself and your partner.
I wish you the best of luck of course 🙂
It’s really not that inconceivable for a 21-25 year old (aka someone without a fully developed prefrontal cortex or extensive life experience ) to think love is enough to get past anything.
You're very smart. I'm sorry you're going through this.
Do you have any idea why she'd deny taking him to court? or not making him pay?
This won't end well. You'll look back and not remember the sex as much as how screwed up things got. Don't do it. It's not worth the risk.
Update us when you're divorced.
Be happy she wasnt amart ebough to hide her character until she was pregnant or married to you..
Also kudos on your success, love to know how you did it.
Why do you care or need to know if he's into you? Are you actually considering pursuing a relationship with a married man?
You need a lawyer. I can understand why you've made all of the decisions you have, and your ex sounds like an arsenal. However this is a legal situation and you need to find yourself a really good lawyer now.
Speaking as a man, it’s not sexism. Men are fucking disgusting. How are you going to read this comment and your first thought is to cry sexism when we are literally the ones harassing this woman who came here for relationship advice? Men like you are why women generalize men.
23/21 is too young to call it settling. Find someone who loves all of you and makes you feel an absolute dreamboat. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s getting podcast advice ?
I’m sorry to say it….move on from him.
You were only together five weeks. This isn’t in any way your fault. He made a decision.
And now it’s your turn.
Yea and where dad dismisses moms safety because it’s easier to tell her to shut up than to help her. 🙁
My FIL made inappropriate comments as well, but (thank god) not of a sexual nature. When I was pregnant I told the in laws that those comments stop or I don’t bring baby around. FIL dropped a comment on the first visit, I packed up baby and left. Never happened again. Leverage works both ways and you are this baby’s main defender in life.
Dad’s a boat rocker, mom and BF are stabilizers. This is the time to set boundaries, choose how you want to live!.
The other kicker is that she said she felt zero remorse for any of them because her ex didn’t give her the attention she desired and it was pretty much his fault for not fulfilling her needs.
So not only is she a habitual cheater and liar, she'll convince herself that it isn't her fault in order to not feel bad about it.
I don't usually jump to conclusions like this, but I honestly don't think this relationship is worth salvaging. She doesn't sound like someone you should be with and who knows what else you're going to find out that makes all of that^ seem smalltime
Sounds like it's mostly cause by his real feelings, he doesn't want to be with you anymore, you guys should just end it for real
You just let his sister grope his crotch ? What does that mean exactly
You sound genuinely lovely and these people will be lucky to have you in their lives!
I find the best topics of conversation in social situations are often the most basic…you just ask people how their week is going and share stuff that's going on with you. It can seem awkward or banal at first but eventually you’ll find things that resonate.
Congratulations on leaving your ex who's kept you locked up(?!) and good luck with the next stage of your life.
Your son is out there trying to live! a life that is most authentic to him. be happy for him and happy for the time that you get with him when you do see him.
He would be miserable living somewhere he did not want to be.
My cousin has FAS
He’s nearing fifty and has never looked after himself completely independently. He lived with my aunt and uncle until he was 35, at which point they had to move him into an assisted living facility because they were simply too old to keep taking care of him. He’s generally chipper and very good with kids, but struggles to handle adult topics and conversations, has had a permanent stooped posture for as long as I’ve been alive (I’m turning 35 this year).
He can’t drive, he can’t work more than 12 hours a week, he can’t form meaningful relationships with women
Is this really the life you want for your child?
He also may not be into oral as much as other men bit I still think that's rude to “rate your pussy”. He has no concept if what this can do to a woman's confidence. Kind of an odd conversation..
He finds humour when people are in distress? Big red flag, waving next to the other big red flag of being 10 years older than you.
I was raised in a Catholic family, I was just talking to my very religious grandmother about weddings, as my partner was raised Protestant. She says in our church mixed marriages are allowed as long as the other partner is baptized Christian. However we will not be having a Catholic wedding, as I do not practice my faith strongly anymore and would prefer to be married outside the church. At the end of the day, a marriage is between two people, many couples elope for this reason. You shouldn’t have to compromise for people outside outside of the two of you even if it’s your family. You and your partner should come to a personal agreement about what ceremony works best for you, whether it be a private elopement if the family is deciding not to attend or elsewhere. Whatever is the best solution for everyone
What do you know about his dating history/ relationship history?
Why is he not dating someone closer to his age?
You need to look for signs of control, manipulation, love-bombing.
If no one invited you then no
Leave.
She is still fucking this guy, you know it, all of reddit know it.
Me and my husband have sex on shrooms and it's amaaaazing but i have never had sex with anyone else all of the many times I've tripped in my life. Always thought it would be weird. Def need to be very comfy with eachother